Jaki system
- Tom01
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Re: Jaki system
Chodzi o system operacyjny, który najlepiej sobie radzi z CM czy oprogramowanie do kalibracji? Jeśli pierwsze to macOS. Jeśli drugie, to soft dedykowany przez producenta monitora. Jeśli uniwersalny to I1 Profiler, basICColor display, ArgyllCMS.
Tom01
Masz problem z kolorem, wal śmiało!
monitory.mastiff.pl
*** 30 lat obecności w branży monitorowej
Partner Eizo Nanao, Sharp NEC Display Solutions
tel. (+48) 690 660 770, tech. (+48) 601 888 312
https://monitory.mastiff.pl
e-mail: color@mastiff.pl
Masz problem z kolorem, wal śmiało!
monitory.mastiff.pl
*** 30 lat obecności w branży monitorowej
Partner Eizo Nanao, Sharp NEC Display Solutions
tel. (+48) 690 660 770, tech. (+48) 601 888 312
https://monitory.mastiff.pl
e-mail: color@mastiff.pl
Post
Re: Jaki system
Serdecznie dziękuje za wyrażenie swojej opinii. Rozumiem że jeżeli zainstaluję system MacOS to dostrzegę różnicę pomiędzy Windowsem a MacOS. Tak się zastanawiam czy to będzie duża różnica w wyświetleniu kolorów czy nikła różnica.
- Tom01
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- Lokalizacja: Białystok-Warszawa
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Re: Jaki system
Różnica będzie duża praktycznie w każdym przypadku. W macOS i starszych OSX wszystkie aplikacje wyświetlają tak samo. W Windows nie. To widać natychmiast.
Tom01
Masz problem z kolorem, wal śmiało!
monitory.mastiff.pl
*** 30 lat obecności w branży monitorowej
Partner Eizo Nanao, Sharp NEC Display Solutions
tel. (+48) 690 660 770, tech. (+48) 601 888 312
https://monitory.mastiff.pl
e-mail: color@mastiff.pl
Masz problem z kolorem, wal śmiało!
monitory.mastiff.pl
*** 30 lat obecności w branży monitorowej
Partner Eizo Nanao, Sharp NEC Display Solutions
tel. (+48) 690 660 770, tech. (+48) 601 888 312
https://monitory.mastiff.pl
e-mail: color@mastiff.pl
Post
An example, a widegamut (GB-LED, QLED... it does not matter). Since Windows desktop is not color managed, it you have an icon or open a web in Inenert explorer, an sRGB image "255" red is going to be displayed as "monitor's native gamut 255 red". Strong oversaturation. Same for MS office or MS paint.
On the other hand macOS provides you a color managed desktop, so that sRGB 255 red is reencoded to other RGB values that in your monitors native colorspace match sRGB 255 color coordinates.
...but there is a probem. MacOS color engine is broken since 3 or 4 major OS versions. It cannot work properly with not idealized profiles, otherwise severe grey color tint artifacts and black crush arise in apps that use macOS color engine. Well documented issue. You cannot use anything different from 1xTRC single curve matrix balckpoint compensation profile (these are DisplayCAL names, other software may have other names for the same).
A lot of multiplatform aplilcations like Photoshop, GIMP ort firefox provide their own color management engine. For those applications the same display will render the same colors in Windows or macOS.
It's some kind of user preference about if a color managed desktop is useful or not. For casual office/browsing work color managed desktop while working with a widegamut display is appreciated... but you can set "sRGB" OSD mode in any advancved monitor, even with HW calibaryion CALx preset... so it is not really an issue for WIndows + external displays. On widegamut laptops it could be a problem but most manufacturer like those XPS dell widegamut laptops provide soe application for simple gamut emulation like sRGB.
I mean... unless you are a computer unfriendly user, macOS color managed desktop has no advantage over WIndows if you have a widegaut and you know how to use it.
Actually macOS color managed desktop could be a problem. For example, let's say that you own a PA272W. It's a very good reliable widegamut without software issues. That display has a LUT3D hable to emulate other device colorspaces, even non idealized ones (Eizo CS or Dells or Benq lut-matrix HW calibration can only emulate "ideal" colorspaces like sRGB/AdobeRGB co custom but idealized boundaries xy gamut triangle).
You can use that functionality with expensive software like Lightillusion or simple but useful on the fly gamut emulation with Multiprofiler.
With Multiprofiler + no color managed desktop (windows) you can see things like you are going to see in a non color managed tablet or mobile phone wthout caring about if app is not color managed.
That is useful for pro users that need it.
Of course youcan do the same with Photoshop softproof, but having that in HW you can see how a tablet app is going to look while you code it and run it in a mobile OS emulator in that programming enviroment.
So ... it's some kind of user preference if it iw better or worse to have a color managed deskop.
From an advanced user perspective (mine) I do not like it since it limits what I can do (emulate other devices screen). If I want to browse I can use Firefox which can be used with a full color management configuration (although it has some probelms with Xrite software profiles, ArgyllCMS ones work OK). If I want to see an image I can use old image viewer (W10 newer Photos app is not color managed). If I use Adobe suite... it's color managed.
YMMV.
Re: Jaki system
MacOS has color managed desktop. This could be helpful or a nightmare.
An example, a widegamut (GB-LED, QLED... it does not matter). Since Windows desktop is not color managed, it you have an icon or open a web in Inenert explorer, an sRGB image "255" red is going to be displayed as "monitor's native gamut 255 red". Strong oversaturation. Same for MS office or MS paint.
On the other hand macOS provides you a color managed desktop, so that sRGB 255 red is reencoded to other RGB values that in your monitors native colorspace match sRGB 255 color coordinates.
...but there is a probem. MacOS color engine is broken since 3 or 4 major OS versions. It cannot work properly with not idealized profiles, otherwise severe grey color tint artifacts and black crush arise in apps that use macOS color engine. Well documented issue. You cannot use anything different from 1xTRC single curve matrix balckpoint compensation profile (these are DisplayCAL names, other software may have other names for the same).
A lot of multiplatform aplilcations like Photoshop, GIMP ort firefox provide their own color management engine. For those applications the same display will render the same colors in Windows or macOS.
It's some kind of user preference about if a color managed desktop is useful or not. For casual office/browsing work color managed desktop while working with a widegamut display is appreciated... but you can set "sRGB" OSD mode in any advancved monitor, even with HW calibaryion CALx preset... so it is not really an issue for WIndows + external displays. On widegamut laptops it could be a problem but most manufacturer like those XPS dell widegamut laptops provide soe application for simple gamut emulation like sRGB.
I mean... unless you are a computer unfriendly user, macOS color managed desktop has no advantage over WIndows if you have a widegaut and you know how to use it.
Actually macOS color managed desktop could be a problem. For example, let's say that you own a PA272W. It's a very good reliable widegamut without software issues. That display has a LUT3D hable to emulate other device colorspaces, even non idealized ones (Eizo CS or Dells or Benq lut-matrix HW calibration can only emulate "ideal" colorspaces like sRGB/AdobeRGB co custom but idealized boundaries xy gamut triangle).
You can use that functionality with expensive software like Lightillusion or simple but useful on the fly gamut emulation with Multiprofiler.
With Multiprofiler + no color managed desktop (windows) you can see things like you are going to see in a non color managed tablet or mobile phone wthout caring about if app is not color managed.
That is useful for pro users that need it.
Of course youcan do the same with Photoshop softproof, but having that in HW you can see how a tablet app is going to look while you code it and run it in a mobile OS emulator in that programming enviroment.
So ... it's some kind of user preference if it iw better or worse to have a color managed deskop.
From an advanced user perspective (mine) I do not like it since it limits what I can do (emulate other devices screen). If I want to browse I can use Firefox which can be used with a full color management configuration (although it has some probelms with Xrite software profiles, ArgyllCMS ones work OK). If I want to see an image I can use old image viewer (W10 newer Photos app is not color managed). If I use Adobe suite... it's color managed.
YMMV.
Post
LUT3D HW calibration monitor like CG279X (you asked for the best, other simple solutions may work for you like Eizo CS displays).
Monitor kalibracji LUT3D HW, taki jak CG279X (poprosiłeś o najlepsze, inne proste rozwiązania mogą działać tak jak wyświetlacze Eizo CS).
Windows or macOS? it depends on what you do with your screen.
Windows czy macOS? zależy to od tego, co robisz z ekranem.
If oversaturated colors bothers you on Windows while working with MS Office, fast switch to sRGB mode in monitor.
Jeśli przesycone kolory przeszkadzają w systemie Windows podczas pracy z MS Office, szybko przełącz na tryb sRGB na monitorze.
No difference between OS if you use Adobe programs.
Bez różnicy między systemem operacyjnym, jeśli korzystasz z programów Adobe.
Epson printers lack of 16 bit driver for Windows (AFAIK). It is Epson fault. Canon have 16 bit XPS drivers for Windows.
W drukarkach Epson brak 16-bitowego sterownika dla systemu Windows. To wina Epsona. Canon ma 16-bitowe sterowniki XPS dla systemu Windows.
Re: Jaki system
Przepraszam za mój polski To jest przetłumaczone przez Google.
LUT3D HW calibration monitor like CG279X (you asked for the best, other simple solutions may work for you like Eizo CS displays).
Monitor kalibracji LUT3D HW, taki jak CG279X (poprosiłeś o najlepsze, inne proste rozwiązania mogą działać tak jak wyświetlacze Eizo CS).
Windows or macOS? it depends on what you do with your screen.
Windows czy macOS? zależy to od tego, co robisz z ekranem.
If oversaturated colors bothers you on Windows while working with MS Office, fast switch to sRGB mode in monitor.
Jeśli przesycone kolory przeszkadzają w systemie Windows podczas pracy z MS Office, szybko przełącz na tryb sRGB na monitorze.
No difference between OS if you use Adobe programs.
Bez różnicy między systemem operacyjnym, jeśli korzystasz z programów Adobe.
Epson printers lack of 16 bit driver for Windows (AFAIK). It is Epson fault. Canon have 16 bit XPS drivers for Windows.
W drukarkach Epson brak 16-bitowego sterownika dla systemu Windows. To wina Epsona. Canon ma 16-bitowe sterowniki XPS dla systemu Windows.
Post
Oczywiście temat jest bardziej złożony, zdaję sobie z tego sprawę.
Re: Jaki system
Pisząc, że nie będzie różnicy w wyświetlaniu koloru właśnie to miałem na myśli.
Oczywiście temat jest bardziej złożony, zdaję sobie z tego sprawę.
Post
Re: Jaki system
Mówimy tutaj o zwykłym Windowskie, bez używania żadnych programów typu Photoshop, GIMP.
- Tom01
- Kontakt:
- Lokalizacja: Białystok-Warszawa
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Re: Jaki system
Bo to różnica będzie, jak wyżej pisałem.
Tom01
Masz problem z kolorem, wal śmiało!
monitory.mastiff.pl
*** 30 lat obecności w branży monitorowej
Partner Eizo Nanao, Sharp NEC Display Solutions
tel. (+48) 690 660 770, tech. (+48) 601 888 312
https://monitory.mastiff.pl
e-mail: color@mastiff.pl
Masz problem z kolorem, wal śmiało!
monitory.mastiff.pl
*** 30 lat obecności w branży monitorowej
Partner Eizo Nanao, Sharp NEC Display Solutions
tel. (+48) 690 660 770, tech. (+48) 601 888 312
https://monitory.mastiff.pl
e-mail: color@mastiff.pl
Post
Re: Jaki system
Nie bardzo rozumiem, windows to tylko narzędzie pośrednie do używania programów, czy przeglądarki internetowej. Sam system operacyjny (pulpit, okienka, ikony) mało mnie obchodzi jak to jest wyświetlane kolorystycznie. Ma być dobrze w używanych programach, ale to tylko moje zdanie.
Post
NEC EAs are not very expensive (24" 1920x1200 6+2bit IPS panel should be less than 400 euro) but Im'n not sure if they can restrict gamut to sRGB (a matrix-lut). Maybe more expensive ones like EA275UHD/EA271Q can restrict to sRGB in HW cal, the other EAs I think that they only have a HW lut for fixing white & grey (just LUT like a GPU, not lut matrix lut). Maybe Tom01 knows these EAs better than me.
Re: Jaki system
I think he meant to say "without relying in color management". So if I understood him properly, he is asking for the best (or a good one) sRGB monitor: plug it, (optinally calibrate), use it like a normal monitor.AndN11 pisze: ↑08 sierpnia 2019, 14:58 - czwNie bardzo rozumiem, windows to tylko narzędzie pośrednie do używania programów, czy przeglądarki internetowej. Sam system operacyjny (pulpit, okienka, ikony) mało mnie obchodzi jak to jest wyświetlane kolorystycznie. Ma być dobrze w używanych programach, ale to tylko moje zdanie.
NEC EAs are not very expensive (24" 1920x1200 6+2bit IPS panel should be less than 400 euro) but Im'n not sure if they can restrict gamut to sRGB (a matrix-lut). Maybe more expensive ones like EA275UHD/EA271Q can restrict to sRGB in HW cal, the other EAs I think that they only have a HW lut for fixing white & grey (just LUT like a GPU, not lut matrix lut). Maybe Tom01 knows these EAs better than me.
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